Teen Forums - Teen Chat, Teen Help, Teen Advice & Support

So... you're reasoning behind your argument that health care is bad is that without health you'd die... And I don't know what I'm talking about...huh.

Whatever, we'll see. The south also seceded once because they wanted to have slaves. (among other economic things) I can't say it'd surprise me if they (or anyone else really) seceded because the government is trying to help the people.


Marietta, I dislike arguing with you. But I do have a question, why do you say the people are against this bill?

Wow.. you guys are such babies. Cuba and France have socialist healthcare and they have the world's best. I think it's better to be farther up then #33 on the Global Healthcare Scale.

But then ahead I am Canadian.

'The people' as in all people? Because there are millions of people who support the reform, both in the US and abroad. Not all people want it, but all the people will never want or approve the same things. Ultimately, enough people wanted it for it to pass.

Since when does this reform turn your physician into a government controlled slave? Last time I checked, your physician is the one who looks over what's best for you; this reform just makes it possible for those who ordinarily wouldn't be able to afford or secure health care to obtain it.

The government or the physicians? Because they're both paper pushers. As I previously explained, your physician does what's best for you; the government won't interfere with the care your physician provides or the information/advice he or she gives you.

Why? Because the health insurance industry cares so much about you? Perhaps in another world, but on the planet Earth the only thing the insurance industry cares about is your money and ways to obtain it without covering the costs of your treatment.

Change? Things did change. Things changed a week ago. You want change? We got change. We've done everything else before. This is the change. There is no other way to change. If you want change, you want this. You can't want change just to go back to what was already done; that's not change.

As I previously wrote, there are millions who do want it. And to be quite frank, half the people who don't support it don't know what the hell the reform is about. My younger brother told me he doesn't support the reform a few days ago. When I asked him why, and when I asked him about specifics, he was bloody clueless. This is the case for your 'vast majority'. The 'vast majority' consists mainly of ignorant fools who couldn't comment on their sidewalk let alone form a coherent opinion on a historic health care reform.

Leave the finance to those who are qualified and have all the information. It can't be afforded you say? It was passed. It can be afforded. It's actively being afforded. Explain, please, how it can't be afforded, because it blows my mind to think how something that's already in place and being afforded cannot be afforded - in the end, this is a long term plan, so there's no backing out now.

There have been improvements. Things are getting better. Some people are happier. Over time, more people will get happier. Personally, I think Obama has done great with the country in the short amount of time that he's been in office. Hell, now I even have my parents' insurance until I'm 26 - just in time for me to finish medical school.

That's a terrible reason.

It will even itself out. In the end, money will be saved. If things remained the way they were, it would have only gotten worse. You're also not factoring in education into the equation. Students will stimulate the economy (as a direct result of this reform), jobs will be created, etc.

Let them leave. They won't be missed. I'm sure they'll have so much fun in countries where health insurance is only a dream.

Pack your bags, flash your passports, and goodbye!

Goodbye?

Are you serious, or are you trolling now? Have you even gone through the bill?

This country will crash and burn because coverage will be easier to obtain for those who can't afford it, have preexisting conditions, have children with preexisting conditions, college will be easier to afford to aspiring students, loans will be easier to pay back, the market will become competitive and efficiency because of the pool, employers will be able to provide their employees with insurance, people will be able to choose their own private plans, and doctor-patient relationship remains unaltered? Yeah... no.

First the country will crash and burn and now doctors will lose money, their patients and their jobs? You know all of that is completely false, right?

Robbery =/= theft, and neither of the two are happening to you.

They don't earn more money, but they are able to get coverage regardless of their financial hardships.

Don't dwell in the past. The US has a new president and things are changing for the better.

Bill has been passed. It's still an option.

Goodbye... for the second (or third?) time?

No.

No. They won't.

Like it hasn't already. And laziness is completely unrelated to the reform.

Because you are being 'robbed' and the 'vast majority' of people don't support it? You do know that you've based your opinion on nothing other than false information, right? In your two fairly large posts you've covered no issues pertaining to the reform itself.

Right...

There's some intense points being made in this thread. Impressive.

However, I would have to remind the participants that while America is a 'Democracy' it is also a 'Republic'. Which means, we "the people" have empowered the Representatives/Senators to do what they believe is best. Sure, they face the public's wrath, or the public's love and support. But either way, what's done is done.

This "Repeal and Replace" thing the Republicans have going (on a side note: please note that I am a Conservative/Republican) is useless. This path could easily still defeat the party in the elections.

The majority of Americans know that a change needed to happen. In fact the majority of American's aren't against this bill. There are provisions within it that are disgusting just as there are provisions that are awesome.

But to finish the point I started with the 'Repeal and Replace' slogan being used. It's virtually impossible. EVEN if the Republicans gained EVERY OPEN seat in the Senate and gained Majority in the House. It would not be enough.

Do you honestly think President Obama would put his signature in approval for a piece of legislation that defeats something he worked hard for?

Congress would have to override a veto. And in no uncertain terms, would Republicans be able to pull it off. So move on and find a real issue, to all those running for office.

To the bill itself:

This bill has a lot of good in it. Does it have bad? Yes. But I have to believe the good is outweighing the good.

Unless you're okay with the notion of people not able to get adequate health care because they don't have the finances/insurance? I mean if you're okay with that poor woman who does have cancer unable to get it treated until its to late. Or that kid who needs surgery but can't because his parents simply can't afford it and his insurance dropped him because of a "pre-existing condition".

And to make another point.

To anyone who tries to pull out the "socialist" card. This is a 'social program' it is not changing the nature of our government. And if you have a problem with social programs.. Well by God, we have to do away with our fire departments, police departments, public schools, public transportation, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc, etc, etc. For these are all social programs.

So, unless you're ready to rid the nation of all the social programs (many of which you probably benefit from), then don't assume to single out the health care as socialist and therefore evil.

My collection of wasp things.

A few things gotta be cleared up in this debate because we're spreading around a lot of misinformation that's making it hard to get a good discussion going that's actually meaningful for what actually got passed.

First, it's not providing health care. This is not universal health care. This is an insurance bill. It provides a government funded health insurance policy, requires that every American citizen have health insurance, prevents private insurers from rejecting applicants for insurance based on prior conditions(like if you have AIDS, you can't be rejected for having AIDS), places a tax on "cadillac" insurance policies which do include insurance for retirees( so if your retirement package includes health insurance, that company must pay penalties for offering you it, lol), and requires that all businesses with 50 or more employees to provide health insurance for all employees.

Comparing this to UHC in other nations is pointless because the two are totally unrelated. This is not about CARE, but about INSURANCE. Unfortunately, just because you have insurance does not mean you're going to get better or even good care.

Now, the idea is that this bill will drop health care costs, but that's under the assumption that healthy people being required by law to get health insurance will flood the pool, so to speak, and reduce costs because healthy people that pay for insurance don't tend to use it, so that's money that's redirected to other insurance policy holders that have chronic illnesses or use it more(like the elderly and women). However, this can be offset by insurance companies being required to cover ANY applicant, so there may also be a flood of policy holders that use the insurance frequently. We don't know that this will in fact reduce medical costs. We also don't know it will increase them. This was passed on a hope and prayer that it works out, but it's not based on hard data.

My issues with this bill...

#1: It does now allow for insurance to be purchased across state lines. Unlike car insurance, which can be purchased across state lines, medical insurance you purchase in one state cannot be purchased in another. If you move, for example, you must get insurance in your state and you can't use the insurance from the state you moved from. This is primarily because states have their own individual medical systems that are supplemented by the feds and of course state taxes. Not only does this bill not allow for competition across the whole country, it places a larger burden on states to cover the health costs!

#2: Mandatory health insurance. Now, they made car insurance mandatory, but unlike my first point, car insurance is traded across state lines and the costs for car insurance have remained relatively low for a very basic plan. Unfortunately, you not only will be required to have health insurance, but you will only be able to get health insurance provided in your own state.

There is a fundamentally bad thing about being required to have insurance. What it says is that as rational human beings, we are incapable of making these decisions for ourselves. We need bureaucrats to tell us how we run our lives. Is having health insurance a good idea? Perhaps. We can debate that, but that's our right isn't it? If I want to eat a dozen donuts for breakfast lunch and dinner, I can. It's not healthy. It's not cost effective..But it's my right because I'm rational and I know what's best for me and I can rationally weigh the risks to the benefits of my rational actions. Mandating health insurance is just one more chip away from our basic freedoms as rational beings.

And you can bet your ass that they will use this mandatory insurance to dictate your behavior. It's like living with your parents. You don't make the rules. They do. What we've done is essentially told our leaders that they can tell us what to do with our lives.

Thankfully, so many recognize this and those politicians are facing a lot of fire from their constituents. Unfortunately, they won't do anything because every election we magically lose the will to fire these people and replace them because they throw the party names around and we freely surrender ourselves to Red vs Blue rather than citizens vs government.

#3: There's no guarantee this actually improves anything in regards to getting sick people who can't help themselves the help they need. While those 30,000,000 or so people that are now uninsured will become insured, it doesn't mean they're going to get treated. It doesn't mean they're going to survive. It doesn't mean anything really.

#4: Now I'm completely speculating here, but this really sounds like the precursor to UHC and if you thought this debate over insurance was bad, just wait for when that day comes. It'll be as explosive as immigration.

Free healthcare sucks. People from canada come to the us to get treatments becuase of the lack of doctors who want to work because of the payments they get from the government. Also the top healthcare countries (japan,france,germany) all have independant healthcare and also protect the doctors more then the us doctors are protected.

Really?
Last time I checked people from Northern US head up north in Canada for cheap medicine and healthcare, The payments aren't that bad. Besides, healthcare should be about helpnig others SURVIVE! Not be paid weither they die or not. It's like saying you hate your country but join the military for the pay. It just shouldn't work that way.

I think.... I've changed my mind about the bill. I no longer like it. I'm not specifically against it, but I am much less high on it. I have listened to news organizations and talk radio. The conservatives are talking about the issues at hand, and the reasons why the bill will fail, and how the economy is still not recovering.

The libs are making fun of the conservs. Either that or this man named Alex Bennet who hosts at political talk show in the morning on sirius, just talks about his day. He spent 40 minutes talking about a lunch date.

I think the insurance bill in IDEA (like so many things) is brilliant. But when put into practice, It just doesn't work, and doesn't work to the satisfaction of the people.


By the by, Marietta if you have access to a sirius radio listen to Mike Church - I think you'd like him.

Well This is really great information for each and every person who want to stay healthy and who want to join health care centre. I also have small health centre and I always join other health related events Because health is wealth for me.

As far as people complaining about the tax dollars, YOUR tax dollars may help a child with a headcold to someone who is dying from cancer. Your tax dollars are HELPING build the hospitals, fund the medics, etc. They are only working for good things; I'm not sure how that is at all a problem.

As stated previously on in this thread "Cuba and France have socialist healthcare and they have the world's best."

Other than that, I don't have that much of an education on healthcare other than the United States' seem to be broken and other "socialist/communist" countries have some that do, and that a few extra tax dollars that are going to help the community are a small price to pay. Although I understand how it is inconvenient during this recession.

~ Wings