If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
I don't see the whole problem. While the Quran is the holy book and is what Muslims follows and believe in, it itself is a symbol. And the same Quran, on fire, is a symbol itself. Just how a flag is a symbol and burning said flag is a symbol too. Your morality and stuff should be inside, not bound in a pages of a book. A book can get destroyed, damaged, etc. Your morality shouldn't be destroyed and damaged along side with the book. If someone in real life got all raged at me for saying that burning a holy book, it being a Quran or Bible or whatever, is allowed under the Constitution, I would get multiple copies of said book, burn them, barbeque over them, and while relaxing and recording the entire episode to show them later, I'll enjoy my freedom to do so.
I know if I had a book and people decided a big protest to burn them, I wouldn't mind. It is their right of free speech to, plus I get a boost in book sales from people buying the book to burn.
I'd understand if Barack Obama recorded himself burning the Islamic holy book, but a congregation of 50?
the number of the members is irrelevant. only the act counts. and it seems an historical fact to me, that it only takes a few idiots to make bad history, to let subsequently suffer the masses for generations.
I don't see the whole problem. While the Quran is the holy book and is what Muslims follows and believe in, it itself is a symbol.
That's a pretty secular view on the matter. Which is OK, but doesn't reflect the viewpoint of someone who's sincerely religious.
Because if you believe that the Quran is the book written by the power which determines your own faith, which watches every step you make, every thought you think, and awards or punishes you accordingly (in this world or in the afterworld) it all looks very different. The book is holy to such a person, meaning that this power becomes really angry when this happens (as many would if, say, a mass-urination contest would take place on ground zero) and that anger would be directed towards humanity or yourself personally.
That's a pretty secular view on the matter. Which is OK, but doesn't reflect the viewpoint of someone who's sincerely religious.
Because if you believe that the Quran is the book written by the power which determines your own faith, which watches every step you make, every thought you think, and awards or punishes you accordingly (in this world or in the afterworld) it all looks very different. The book is holy to such a person, meaning that this power becomes really angry when this happens (as many would if, say, a mass-urination contest would take place on ground zero) and that anger would be directed towards humanity or yourself personally.
People tend to forget what the word "holy" means.
^This! This Guy is smart.
Freedom of expression does not cover incitement. In much the same way that it is not allowed (and frankly stupid) to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre or "THERE'S A BOMB!" on a plane, it is also unacceptable to burn the Holy book of another's religion.
When the outcome of one's actions is likely to cause panic or potential harm (either physical or emotional) to another person, protection from the latter takes precedent over some vague reference to "Freedom".
Freedom of expression does not cover incitement. In much the same way that it is not allowed (and frankly stupid) to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre or "THERE'S A BOMB!" on a plane, it is also unacceptable to burn the Holy book of another's religion.
When the outcome of one's actions is likely to cause panic or potential harm (either physical or emotional) to another person, protection from the latter takes precedent over some vague reference to "Freedom".
Yelling "FIRE!" in a theatre and "A BOMB!" could put people in danger. It would incite panic and people's lives could be at risk. Burning a holy book in protest doesn't. Besides, several Islamic countries burn bibles all the time so its pretty hypocritical to say "BURNING KORAN IS BAD" when they burn another faith's holy book.
BUT WHAT ABOUT ZE CRUSADES? I don't know about you, I would figure most people would have wanted to avoid those barbaric times 800 years ago. I'm not supporting it and I know it is bad but, get over it. It was centuries ago. True progress can never happen if you dwell in the past all the time. Eye for an eye makes everyone blind.
Point still stands. If I can burn the entire foundation of your religion with a 33 cent lighter or, even cheaper, a match, you need to seriously think if you want that. I personally would want something that is stronger and longer lasting that a book.
And on your second point, I can't do anything that someone might find "emotionally hurts them". If I go to a store and don't hold the door for someone and they get upset about it, tough nails. Part of growing up and maturing is being able to ignore bullshit from other people. If someone insults me and call me trash and worthless, am I going to cry and tell the cops that they hurt me emotionally? No. I'm mature enough to deal with insults and ignore them. Remember: sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. Call me what you want, I'll ignore you and probably laugh at your childish insults later.
If by burning a book, people get into a berserk frenzy and kill thousands of people, they need to chill and stop being so batshit insane. Using Islam as an example, if your faith is so peaceful, why threaten murder and violence when someone doesn't do what you want or insults you? If a "normal person" threatens murder to anyone who insults him or her, they're going to either end up in the asylum or jail.
Last edited by Haruko; 28-09-10 at 07:52 PM..
Reason: put some quotation marks in
James, what you're saying here is pretty harsh, esp. for 19, I'd suggest you look a bit deeper into your motivations here and see what they sat about the kind of adult you're growing up to be. Sorry if that reality check sounds condescending, btw.
We make choices in life, you can choose to justify what ever it is you've decided to do based on the 'Too bad' justification, but that's really a lousy justification for being selfish and insensitive. Better to use some awareness and insight into how that behavior might affect others. Or even how it helps you.
Intentionally provocative acts are always unjustified, b/c they're not so much meant to express a thought, or advance a position, or resolve a difference, but rather to hurt, inflame, incite, or otherwise purposely cause some type of harm to someone else. The issue is the effectiveness of the communication, not if it's "Legal" or "OK". I just don't see how incitement of any kind is ever really justified by civilised people. And, I'm glad I don't see that justification, actually.
If you can share with us how you've determined that incitement is an effective tool at resolving differences, that would be helpful.
"Holy" is an arbitrary term. therefore, we should not lay too much emphasis on it. and in a few generations the Muslims will have learned that too.
I'm not sure I agree with the term "arbitrary". I would go for "personal".
I mean, let's take the term "pain". It's not like one can really measure pain. And still, when it hurts, you know it.
When someone gets truly upset if a site or item receives a treatment, which the same person considers inadequate, that site or item is holy to that person.
For example, if I believe that I have to kill a dog that pisses on my car, or the world will not rest, then my car is holy to me (and I should see someone professional). The fact that the car is holy is arbitrary (and crazy) but the term "holy" remains universal.
The only way to really understand the term "holy" is to look for those things that would piss *you* off, if they become violated. Each and everyone of us have something like that.
Today's Toppers
Re: Quran burning
