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Im a Buddhist, so i am SUPPOSE to not care about ether. But bah i love to argue.
Im not an atheist, because i DON'T know if there is a god. I highly doubt it is anything like the christian god, because no one really knows.
But hell this is the debate section, and this is one hell of a topic lol.
Forgive the crappy grammar!
"The more man meditates upon good thoughts, the better will be his world and the world at large. " - Confucius "The guy in the back always has something to say"
Oh Hallace I don't want to be rude or anything because I respect you, but really... meiosis = evolution? Where did you get that from? How on Earth does the fact that many organisms can produce gametes fully explain/support evolution?
Anyway I'm beginning to see a trend here and I'm not sure who is to blame! Far too often in these debates we see both sides of the argument explaining why evolution happens or why it does not happen, but a lot of the time this is simply not relevant! The issue that most creationists have with evolution is not that it doesn't happen (most will claim to believe in micro- but not macroevolution) but that it has not happened on the scale suggested by modern evolutionary biologists. This is they key thing here: most of the time we should not be disagreeing about what is happening now, but about what has happened in the past! PAST TENSE; NOT PRESENT TENSE! For example, a creationist is likely to believe that the flu virus mutates to become immune to our antibodies very frequently, and this is evolution in action. However, they do not believe that humans have evolved from whatever it is that evolutionary biologists claim that we have.
So, here is the crux of my point: creationists do not usually disagree with Evolutionary Theory as a whole, and so posting specific examples that prove evolution to be happening now (or evidence for evolution being probable as a theory) just confuses the situation*! The main issue we should be discussing in these threads is whether or not all the data we have can be analysed post-hoc to support evolution as having happened on a huge scale in the past! And I'm sure all the scientists up in here understand the dangers of post-hoc analysis, and so won't simply be stating that such analyses prove that the relevant parts of evolution can be considered as objectively "factual" as some other theories like wave mechanics or special relativity. You cannot devise a test now that would objectively test whether or not we evolved from species x y-million years ago.
As for 'how scientific' Evolutionary Theory is, I would probably rank it somewhere between Psychology and the natural sciences.
*This applies to you creationists too! Don't go trying to refute parts of Evolutionary Theory with which you don't actually disagree and then, when successful, claim to have shown that evolution never happened! It's, confusing, counter-productive and - most importantly - incorrect!
_______________________________
The above post is not intentionally rude or offensive.
"If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman and make the drop with a smile on your lips."
hahahaha I don't understand why you guys can't compromise. I don't understand why religion cannot accept that G-d's will changes over time and that the Bible/Torah is simply an outline.
to reiterate my position, I believe in creationism and evolution.
How can God's will change?
You are being contradictory.
You say that the Bible is simply a flexible outline that can change at any time. However, in the Bible, it says that God never changes and is always the same.
You are contradicting yourself. You cannot claim that the Bible has weight to it, then go against what it says.
Oh Hallace I don't want to be rude or anything because I respect you, but really... meiosis = evolution? Where did you get that from? How on Earth does the fact that many organisms can produce gametes fully explain/support evolution?
You cannot devise a test now that would objectively test whether or not we evolved from species x y-million years ago.
As for 'how scientific' Evolutionary Theory is, I would probably rank it somewhere between Psychology and the natural sciences.
*This applies to you creationists too! Don't go trying to refute parts of Evolutionary Theory with which you don't actually disagree and then, when successful, claim to have shown that evolution never happened! It's, confusing, counter-productive and - most importantly - incorrect!
Meiosis is micro evolution, which you stated you believe in. Yea since you already believe in it im not gonna go over that complected biology lecture on how it works and all. Let me just say some dna gets mixed up, thats why SOMETIMES kids with brunette parents somehow get blonde hair. But thats just a minor example. So it makes sure the kids are slightly different then their parents, you can see SMALL examples of it Meiosis is where evolution on the minor scale happens. Then there is also the bigger jumps, but those are in the realm of luck and natural disasters (dino killing comet anyone?)
And no one god damn thing can explain anything, thats how the universe works, thats why evolution cant be explained with one theory, it takes multiple ideas that work together. Hell life is complicated.
I see what your saying with the scientists using small amounts of data from the past to determine a lot. But in analyzing the past, they gain perspective on the future. So their theory's about evolution are being tested all the time. I mean in lets say 100 years, the scientists look back and see how there are no more blue whales or something because of some evolutionary actions. Then bam theres more evidence.
Evolution is an idea, because it ALWAYS happens you can't have a super controlled experiment. But so far so good, things go with what we have said. So evolution as a whole seems to still work. But only time will tell!
It doesn't make it wrong, it only makes it a theory. Its in the name people.
And if the past DOESN'T work, well fuck its the past, we have so little information on it we can only have vague ideas about it. But the past is the past, we need to look to the future because thats where we are heading!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lando
How can God's will change?
You are being contradictory.
You say that the Bible is simply a flexible outline that can change at any time. However, in the Bible, it says that God never changes and is always the same.
You are contradicting yourself. You cannot claim that the Bible has weight to it, then go against what it says.
I think he is trying to say that since the bible/other religious text is an interpretation of god will. I doubt god would start contradicting himself, so its humans trying to figure out what the hell is up.
Its just faulty communication if you ask me, language can only hold so much thought. Even when their is the almighty in the equation lol.
Forgive the crappy grammar!
"The more man meditates upon good thoughts, the better will be his world and the world at large. " - Confucius "The guy in the back always has something to say"
'Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit that in this one complaint—and Mr [sic] Gish is but one of many to make it—the literalists are absolutely right. Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today. ‘… Evolution therefore came into being as a kind of secular ideology, an explicit substitute for Christianity.’
If there are any creationists I just have to say that, that is stupid, I am not an atheist, more like a weird sort of deist. Now I believe in God, an all powerful being who created everything, and DNA is just the code he can manipulate, as we as humans are learning to do.
Now I believe he just created the Earth was very involved in early humanity, really started messing up, and when we killed his only child he stepped back and said to himself "I have f**ked with these people too much" and left. This is weird to say, but the idea of God is a great comfort, and hell even the Pope admitted that evolution is real.
I often don't have a rhyme or reason, only a rhythm.
Now I believe he just created the Earth was very involved in early humanity, really started messing up, and when we killed his only child he stepped back and said to himself "I have f**ked with these people too much" and left. This is weird to say, but the idea of God is a great comfort, and hell even the Pope admitted that evolution is real.
Have you ever read the Bible?!
Jesus did die, but, in His death, the world was absolved from sin. He sacrificed himself in order to save the world from sin.
And, I hate to break it to you, but, the Pope isn't God. Just because he believes something does not mean that it is true.
"Sometimes, the impossible can become possible...IF YOU'RE AWESOME!" -Rhino the Hamster
(Idea stolen from Novanter and vampenstine)
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Re: Darwinism (Evolution)
