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Just for reference, these laws were given by God {Deut. 6:1 "Now these are the commandments, statutes and ordinances that the LORD your God instructed me to teach you..." (NET)}, after the Mosaic Covenant was made (Ex. 19). Your question would be more accurately phrased: "would God make a covenant with those who who would in the future claim to follow laws that He makes but that we find personally distasteful?" And in this form, the question seems a little odd
It might also interest you to know that the Israelites were the only people in the Ancient Near East that didn't practice child sacrifice. In fact, although a lot of the laws may seem immoral to us today, they were hugely "better" than those held by other peoples of the time.
God is an omnibenevolent being, and He is the arbiter of morality. If we observe that God does/did something that seems immoral to us, it is perfectly logical to accept that it may simply be our own perceptions of morality that our flawed. Indeed, if God is the arbiter of morality, then this is necessarily the case.
Out of curiosity, why do you consider responses like "scripture says so" to be stupid? Because you don't think scripture says so, or because you believe scripture to be unreliable?
The Scripture is unreliable yes. Why did these revelations always happen in the barely literate desert, and not with say, the Chinese, where people can read and study evidence?
And you seem to assume that God is the ultimate moral authority, and that if he does something, it is right.
Tell me, Jam... Have you read 1984? Because The Party (the ultimate authority) could say that 2+2=5, does that make it so, or is our sense of mathematics innate inside of us?
Obviously, The Party is simply a metaphor for God in this example.
And, about the child sacrifice, I was not accusing the Israelites, but God.
we are trying to link each others beliefs here? Everyone has different belief we cant link every belief to one .... did you make this debate to see some opinions or to CHANGE our opinions?
its what we believe and it wont change no matter what you tell
sometimes we put up walls , not to keep people out, but to see who cares enough to knock them down.
we are trying to link each others beliefs here? Everyone has different belief we cant link every belief to one .... did you make this debade to see some opinions or to CHANGE our opinions?
its what we believe and it wont change no matter what you tell
I disagree quite strongly. God punishes justly: if we do something deserving punishment, then we are punished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabokov
Adam and Eve had two children, Cain and Abel. Both of these were boys. How could they create the entire human race?
With God, all things are possible. Momentarily disregarding the alleged lack of females with which to reproduce, it is interesting to note the lack of diversity in the modern gene pool. I have a feeling that paleontologists believe that the entirety of today's human population is descended from a comparatively "small" group of homo-<something>. Obviously "small" in paleontologists' terms in much larger than one couple (i.e. the man/Adam and the woman/Eve), but our lack of genetic diversity is an intriguing question in the history of human evolution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabokov
The Scripture is unreliable yes. Why did these revelations always happen in the barely literate desert, and not with say, the Chinese, where people can read and study evidence?
I do not know. But does the fact that I do not know a reason mean that there is not a perfectly good one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabokov
And you seem to assume that God is the ultimate moral authority, and that if he does something, it is right.
Assume? Perhaps that's the right word; I'm not sure. But yes; that is what I believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabokov
Tell me, Jam... Have you read 1984? Because The Party (the ultimate authority) could say that 2+2=5, does that make it so, or is our sense of mathematics innate inside of us?
Obviously, The Party is simply a metaphor for God in this example.
I leave myself agnostic with respect to this question. Can God do the logically impossible? Perhaps. I don't know...
Or have two and two always been equal to five, and I have somehow been deceived my entire life to believe that they equal four?
I haven't read that (book?), I'm afraid; no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabokov
And, about the child sacrifice, I was not accusing the Israelites, but God.
The Israelites did not practice child sacrifice. Genesis 22 is considered by some scholars to not only be a display of Abraham's faithfulness (and therefore righteousness), but also to be God's message to Abraham that He does not expect child sacrifice- unlike the "gods" of the other religions of the ANE.
But I think this is largely irrelevant to your point: you are saying that God is probably not omnibenevolent as He makes laws that seem immoral, yes?
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The above post is not intentionally rude or offensive.
"If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman and make the drop with a smile on your lips."
Not exclusively that reason, I am arguing that God is not omnibenevolent and we can observe this through doctrine.
I don't understand... do you mean that you think that we can observe this through scripture? Popular doctrine is that God is omnibenevolent, although I must admit that some theists reconcile this with the apparent suffering in the world in interesting ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabokov
And, it does seem awfully coincidental that these revelations occurred in the desert, eh?
How so?
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The above post is not intentionally rude or offensive.
"If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman and make the drop with a smile on your lips."
Benevolent has a set definition and that is what I am sticking to.
Also, the Abrahamic God.
No word has a "set" definition. definitions change and adjust in accordance with the culture/ time period in which they are used.
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Originally Posted by Gray
oh well , i believe he is ... But not in the way all of you think... and define the word "benevolent"
God Gave us the Free will to eat or not eat this Cursed apple... we did ... it was our option , we did chose death ! ... So the " he doesnt helps us " thingy and the "he lets people die " thingy .... Just imagine if he had to save people , it would be like Breaking this free will , we chose Death... we could remain in heaven but we chose to eat this apple .
God is a Love machine... For me he is Benevolent , but each person defines this word related to God , Differently
Thank you
||Gray||
What are you talking about? I have never eaten any cursed fruit, that I know of at least. Are you confident that your assertion that we are all accountable for the sins of two individuals is not in fact a mockery of true morality which requires a certain degree of accountability?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray
we are trying to link each others beliefs here? Everyone has different belief we cant link every belief to one .... did you make this debate to see some opinions or to CHANGE our opinions?
its what we believe and it wont change no matter what you tell
I'm sorry, but the point of a debate is to learn and process both sides of the story. You just asserted that you would readily dismiss proven facts on the grounds of faith. Which is simply making a virtue out of not thinking. "faith" is without substance. Do not enter a debate with inflexibility. If you can not adapt and adjust to new information, which requires accepting facts, you can not win a debate.
I'm not taking sides in this debate, just pointing out some things to make for an interesting discussion.
What I mean is, anyone who reads the Old Testament should be shocked and appalled by the acts of God and should see he is evil.
And, also, about the desert point:
Why did God not make a covenant with the Chinese, the most advanced civilisation at the time? Why did God choose a barely literate tribe in the desert? What makes this tribe's belief any different from another tribe's belief?
Could it be that Judaism inspired Christianity and the Emperor Constantine decided to make Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, hence its vast spread.
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Re: Goodness of God.
we could remain in heaven but we chose to eat this apple .
