Teen Forums - Teen Chat, Teen Help, Teen Advice & Support

Novanter · 12-01-12, 11:36 AM

Well, as European people probably know it, the aim of the European Union is making Europe together. There is 6 steps in general until the Political Union, where the states are dissolved, and one big country is there instead of that. The European Union is at the 4th/5th stage. The free movement of every goods, people is OK by now everywhere between the borders of the Union (that's the 4th stage). And, as you know, some countries (17 at all) pays with Euro - that's the Monetary Union (5th stage).

So, the last step would be that European Union would be totally together, just states (like in the USA) - then the USE (United States of Europe) would born. The point of that is becoming a superpower - because Europe has the chance to be bigger than the USA) ~ since we produce 25,6% of the world's GDP, while USA produce 'only' 21,5% (source: International Monetary Fund). - Dear Americans, the point is not that to be better than you in this...
All, that Europe is missing, is the international politics - with it we'd have great power in our hands.
The system of the whole country's regulation would be pretty much as USA's or Germany's, every state has a Parliament, and the whole country has as well. We already have a parliament, but they can't put rules on everything, so some countries can behave like non-European (see: Hungary).

Also, in this point being together means being powerful (not in a force-way, but in economically) - which probably would make the European economy becoming better, because the sources aren't used totally, we (as everyone) tend to import things that we could import from another state). So we wouldn't be that much dependent - OK, I know the point (again) is not that to be separated, in fact, it's being together, but obviously, a bigger country doesn't need to import that much stuff, because due to the size, there country is more likely to have more sources (see: Russia).

Yeah, it comes with the fact that the other 10 members would have to introduce the Euro, but it'd make it even more stable (as you could hear it, the currency is in deep problems), and make it less dependent on the American Dollar - as all the debt is counted in USD, and the USA often prints money to pay their debts, and that makes the worldwide inflation higher. Since the introducement of the Euro (in 1999) - the USD lost some fame, and with this all-Europe used currency, 500 million people would use it, and then even more of the goverment debts would be counted in EUR, so there would be nobody who could do this 'inflation' - nor Europe or the USA would be powerful enough to do it.

As well, I know, we'd have to give up independency, which is very hard. But yeah, we all gave up much of these total-independence with joining the EU. But if you look at the USA - the states has some different laws, not all of them, but still, and since the USE would be (more or less) like USA, we could do that (nobody would give up state Parliaments, so yeah, there would be several laws that would be decided by every state itself).
Every USE inhabitant would have the same citizienship (OK, every EU member has the European citizienship, but it's not equal, for example, with the British or Hungarian one) - we all would be together.

And the last point... We need it, as you can see, it seems EU is not strong enough to be very fine, and we need to come even closer to each other.

So, thoughts?

And to every American (USA) member: I know that USE would be extremely bad for your country (you'd not be the only superpower), but still, it's Europe's own life, so don't point out that 'It'd be shit for us' - if you want to comment, try to think as a European, or please don't share your opinion, if you can comment on how bad it'd be for you. And, I know that USA politics likes telling others what to do, but 313 million big country shouldn't tell what to do to a 502 million big. Thanks.

And, please keep this debate FREE of any personal attacks. This is just an idea, probably (far? or soon?) future of Europe.

Arcanum · 12-01-12, 11:47 AM

In my opinion, I think a politically united Europe as a whole country/empire is very much near impossible (NEAR). While the United States are a very multicultural society, the predominant languages are English (being the official) and Spanish (being widely spoken in the South/West). They were founded as a united nation from the moment they rose up against the British Empire.

Europe however, is much more complicated. Not only is there a huge amount of languages which are not similar to each other, but also the countries have a long history of wars between each other during every historical age. All of them fought (and still fight, just not by the sword) for supermacy, in Medieval times, Colonialism, and so on.
Another point is that while the nations are 'united' economically, they are nowhere near being united politically. Even if many of the countries are mostly multicultural nowadays, rivalries between countries still exist. Alliances and hate between in each other.

I am sure one can think of various other reasons to explain why Europe, while being economically inter-dependant, is nowhere near united. There are just too many different types of people, so to speak.

Tommy · 12-01-12, 11:48 AM

Bring on the U.S.E!

The UK needs to stop being so ~~stubborn~~ denied about being a part of Europe, and move onto the euro.

Besides, it's not like we can't have any independence anymore if we become one country.

Tommy · 12-01-12, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singularis

In my opinion, I think a politically united Europe as a whole country/empire is very much near impossible (NEAR). While the United States are a very multicultural society, the predominant languages are English (being the official) and Spanish (being widely spoken in the South/West). They were founded as a united nation from the moment they rose up against the British Empire.

Europe however, is much more complicated. Not only is there a huge amount of languages which are not similar to each other, but also the countries have a long history of wars between each other during every historical age. All of them fought (and still fight, just not by the sword) for supermacy, in Medieval times, Colonialism, and so on.
Another point is that while the nations are 'united' economically, they are nowhere near being united politically. Even if many of the countries are mostly multicultural nowadays, rivalries between countries still exist. Alliances and hate between in each other.

I am sure one can think of various other reasons to explain why Europe, while being economically inter-dependant, is nowhere near united. There are just too many different types of people, so to speak.

But that doesn't mean we would have to have been one nation from the start.

And like you said, "in medieval times". Them wars are old and the past shouldn't effect what our future could be. If we was all under one roof I'm sure the hate would die down a lot, too.

Novanter · 12-01-12, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singularis

In my opinion, I think a politically united Europe as a whole country/empire is very much near impossible (NEAR). While the United States are a very multicultural society, the predominant languages are English (being the official) and Spanish (being widely spoken in the South/West). They were founded as a united nation from the moment they rose up against the British Empire.

Europe however, is much more complicated. Not only is there a huge amount of languages which are not similar to each other, but also the countries have a long history of wars between each other during every historical age. All of them fought (and still fight, just not by the sword) for supermacy, in Medieval times, Colonialism, and so on.
Another point is that while the nations are 'united' economically, they are nowhere near being united politically. Even if many of the countries are mostly multicultural nowadays, rivalries between countries still exist. Alliances and hate between in each other.

I am sure one can think of various other reasons to explain why Europe, while being economically inter-dependant, is nowhere near united. There are just too many different types of people, so to speak.

Says someone from the Euro-zone.

So... EU has 23 offical languages, while USA has none. I don't know which is worse. EDIT: we can have 23 offical languages overall, then the states would have less.
I know that it's impossible in the near future, since we all have problems. But, I believe the long term solution is that.
History, is history. Look, we conquered Croatia for 900 years, they don't even know that they were. And today's relations between the countries is a lot better, and history is history. We can't decide because of historical reason. If Poland would go to a war with Russia, we wouldn't be with them, even if they are our best friends.

And, nowhere near united? Who counts with Euros, dear John? Not me, but you - this is not an attack. But the Euro symbolizes the union, and as I explained members gave up much of their independence for the EU - so being nowhere united is totally pointless - you even have the same currency.

Arcanum · 12-01-12, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manson

But that doesn't mean we would have to have been one nation from the start.

And like you said, "in medieval times". Them wars are old and the past shouldn't effect what our future could be. If we was all under one roof I'm sure the hate would die down a lot, too.

I never said we should have been one nation from the start. I just implied that being a nation from the start made it easier for America to be united from then on, even if government is a bit decentralized, but still overally efficient.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novanter

Says someone from the Euro-zone.

So... EU has 23 offical languages, while USA has none. I don't know which is worse. EDIT: we can have 23 offical languages overall, then the states would have less.
I know that it's impossible in the near future, since we all have problems. But, I believe the long term solution is that.
History, is history. Look, we conquered Croatia for 900 years, they don't even know that they were. And today's relations between the countries is a lot better, and history is history. We can't decide because of historical reason. If Poland would go to a war with Russia, we wouldn't be with them, even if they are our best friends.

And, nowhere near united? Who counts with Euros, dear John? Not me, but you - this is not an attack. But the Euro symbolizes the union, and as I explained members gave up much of their independence for the EU - so being nowhere united is totally pointless - you even have the same currency.

I agree that, if Europe ever unites as a single superpower nation, it would greatly benefit its situation and solve a lot of its problems. But, I still disagree that it will happen in the near/mid-distant future. If it ever happens, it would take much more centuries.
As for concerning the official language. Well, the United States does not have an official language, English is still the de facto national language, while in Europe you have very unique and diverse languages spread out all across, each focused in a very small area; official is just a title after all, I'm talking about the dominance of a single language here. It is very hard to unite a nation with that condition, even if not impossible.
Not only that, but we all know European rivalries still exist. While you gave the example of the conquering of Croatia 900 years ago, I am more refering to more recent events, such as colonialism and European imperial wars. This is just an example to explain one of the many reasons why the European peoples are divided in many ways, even if united in others.
Also, having the same currency does not mean the countries are any more united at heart, is what I mean.

P.S. I apologize for making this post short, but I need to take my leave. I will reply to your next posts later.

Novanter · 12-01-12, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singularis

I agree that, if Europe ever unites as a single superpower nation, it would greatly benefit its situation and solve a lot of its problems. But, I still disagree that it will happen in the near/mid-distant future. If it ever happens, it would take much more centuries.
As for concerning the official language. Well, the United States does not have an official language, English is still the de facto national language, while in Europe you have very unique and diverse languages spread out all across, each focused in a very small area; official is just a title after all, I'm talking about the dominance of a single language here. It is very hard to unite a nation with that condition, even if not impossible.
Not only that, but we all know European rivalries still exist. While you gave the example of the conquering of Croatia 900 years ago, I am more refering to more recent events, such as colonialism and European imperial wars. This is just an example to explain one of the many reasons why the European peoples are divided in many ways, even if united in others.
Also, having the same currency does not mean the countries are any more united at heart, is what I mean.

Why would we need one dominant language? Well, we have - English almost half of Europe speaks it. And, diversity is something that EU protects, and there is no need to destroy it. We can live with many languages.
Haha, you misunderstood me, Croatia became independent in 1919 - it wasn't that many years ago.

And, then Canada - it's not the point to mix French and English languaged ones. That's NOT the point here either.

You pointed political union, not being one by heart - I know it's hard, but still, I believe, as many people in Europe - that we can not be fine without being only one country. And, these is under provment right now. Europe is in crisis, yeah. We need to have stronger ties to alive.

Anonymouse · 12-01-12, 12:22 PM

lol yeah, but as soon as they get financial difficulties they kick them out, *cough* Greece *cough*

Tommy · 12-01-12, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singularis

I never said we should have been one nation from the start. I just implied that being a nation from the start made it easier for America to be united from then on, even if government is a bit decentralized, but still overally efficient.

Of course it makes it easier, but that doesn't matter because it's something we can achieve in the future.

Novanter · 12-01-12, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymouse

lol yeah, but as soon as they get financial difficulties they kick them out, *cough* Greece *cough*

The Greek goverment lied (not just by a little) when the joined - about their goverment debt, etc. And who said they are kicked out? That's why the EU sent tons of money to Greece to try to save them. Just throw money out of the window for no point? Not really.