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I challenge you to give me one example of an animal of one sex solely copulating with animals of the same sex when it had the opportunity to copulate with those of the other sex.
I would be extremely surprised if you succeed, as I did a lot of research (googling, that is ;D) into this sort of thing a while back. You find animals that mate with both sexes all the time and so, if in a unisex environment, animals that would otherwise be disposed that way mate exclusively with the same sex.. but that does not make them homosexual: they had no chance for inter-gender mating.
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As far as I am aware, the scientific consensus (if such a thing can really be said to exist) is that sexuality is a combination of both genes and environment. We know to an extremely high degree of certainty that it is not solely genes, because there exist a huge number of identical twins that differ in their sexual orientation. Thus, to claim that people are born gay (in the sense that it is not environmental issues that cause sexuality) is simply false.
penguins are famous for forming exclusive, permanent homosexual relationships. They do in fact mate for life even when female penguins are available. They'll just adopt eggs that were abandoned. which I think my actually be a hint as to the evolutionary advantages of homosexuality. They seem to have a hyperactive parental instinct.
As for the twin study. Even identical twins have different finger prints. which they were born with. There's also been a recent discovery of a protein that rests on genes that act like a sort of " on/off"switch which controls the expression of the gene, which can explain even the slight subtle physical differences in identical twins. I know a pair of biracial twins. they're entirely identical except for the colour of their skin. It's an extreme case, but it's a case. Science say what now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontrealRepresent
Then if I'm understanding correctly, it isn't something you're born with and it isn't something you choose either amirite?
It's something you're born with varying predisposition to, but after it is fully developed, you can not change it by will, though it may remain fluid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poontang
That doesn't make it any more nature than nurture. Sexuality can be based on experience from ANYWHERE, not just within the household. Of course I do not think that for the most part there is a choice on whether you can be gay or straight, but I don't think it comes solely to genetics. Think about this, if a person was born and then had no relationships with any person, did not see any person, do you think they would be heterosexual or homosexual? If so, how would they be?
I think they would be dead within the first few hours/days of life. xD
The closest thing i could think of would be Feral Children. there's never been much study into their sexuality because, well, their's the ethical issue of sexual research with minors, and the fact that Feral children almost never live to be 18/ coherent enough to cooperate in the study.
I lack sexual attraction, but I'm indiscriminate on a romantic level. I live in a strictly heteronormative, conservative culture.
I think people who "change" their sexual orientation are simply sexually indiscriminate individuals who engage in "heterosexual/homosexual" acts depending on preferences outside of sexuality or convenience. Like you guys said, you could engage in coitus with a male and still be straight. why Can't i engage in coitus with both genders and be indiscriminate...Orgy anyone?
I don't believe anyone is actually bisexual. If you are bisexual you are gay/lesbian and simply are attracted to the opposite gender aswell, which most would argue is the definition of bisexual, which it is. It is hard to put in words what I mean.
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I think you're born gay. However I think there are also exceptions. For example my ex. She admitted she's not really gay, but because of sexual abuse from her dad she's scared to death of men and has sort of "become" gay. In the case of myself I don't recall ever having one natural sexual thought about men so I don't think I "chose" to be gay, it just happened.
I don't believe anyone is actually bisexual. If you are bisexual you are gay/lesbian and simply are attracted to the opposite gender aswell, which most would argue is the definition of bisexual, which it is. It is hard to put in words what I mean.
ot: On what idk about I always tend to keep my mouth closed and listen to "experts". And since i am not an expert on homosexuality and most homosexuals are I let them decide. And most seem to feel that it's that they are born with it. So I am cool with that answer. I mena its only there perception. It doesnt mean it's right tho. I mean I FEEL I was born straight, but I dont really KNOW. Personally i feel that alot of homosexuals have had poor role models. Like the gay doods I know all have VERY strong overbearing moms and wimpy dads or no dads or dads that are soooo macho that they have never told their sons they loved them. And all the gay chicks I know have very wimpy dads and overbearing moms (kinda the same as gay doods, but with gay chicks they hardly ever have strong dads). This is just MY experience what I see. Not an scientific survey. But if correct then certainly life experience certainly seems to play a part.
But like I said, I will defer to homosexuals. If they seem to feel they were born with it, who am I to say different?
penguins are famous for forming exclusive, permanent homosexual relationships. They do in fact mate for life even when female penguins are available. They'll just adopt eggs that were abandoned. which I think my actually be a hint as to the evolutionary advantages of homosexuality. They seem to have a hyperactive parental instinct.
This is the same case as the article that you posted. Note specifically the zoo director's words on their sexuality: "We don't know whether the three male pairs are really homosexual or whether they have just bonded because of a shortage of females". Again, I have heard about the homosexual behaviour of penguins, but I've not before heard of it being exclusive. Can you source me on that? I'm genuinely curious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookie
As for the twin study. Even identical twins have different finger prints. which they were born with. There's also been a recent discovery of a protein that rests on genes that act like a sort of " on/off"switch which controls the expression of the gene, which can explain even the slight subtle physical differences in identical twins. I know a pair of biracial twins. they're entirely identical except for the colour of their skin. It's an extreme case, but it's a case. Science say what now?
Aha, I thought someone would mention something like this, and so I was very careful in my original post to add a qualifier:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jam
Thus, to claim that people are born gay (in the sense that it is not environmental issues that cause sexuality) is simply false.
Now, I don't know much at all about this protein discovery of which you talk, but I can tell you that differences in fingerprints at least (and, I thought, most of the other subtle differences between identical twins) are due to environmental issues. The fingerprints of twins are actually much more similar than those of other pairs of people, and the differences that do exist are down to the environment of the womb. Anyway, my point when referring to twins was not that people cannot be BORN homosexual explicity, but that they cannot be homosexual due to GENES alone.
To be frank, though, it matters little. The fact that something is caused by environment rather than genes does NOT mean that that something is a choice. I usually only correct people that claim homosexuality is genetic out of principle; the moral and social consequences of such a distinction are essentially zero.
This is the same case as the article that you posted. Note specifically the zoo director's words on their sexuality: "We don't know whether the three male pairs are really homosexual or whether they have just bonded because of a shortage of females". Again, I have heard about the homosexual behaviour of penguins, but I've not before heard of it being exclusive. Can you source me on that? I'm genuinely curious.
Quote:
Male penguin couples have been documented to mate for life, build nests together, and to use a stone as a surrogate egg in nesting and brooding. In 2004, the Central Park Zoo in the United States replaced one male couple's stone with a fertilized egg, which the couple then raised as their own offspring.[41]
complete exclusivity would be hard to determine considering most zoos split them up anyway to breed, but I'm not sure how exactly there being a shortage of females would preclude the possibility of males being a preference, if there's a preference at all.
Quote:
One species in which exclusive homosexual orientation occurs, however, is that of domesticated sheep (Ovis aries).[8][9] "About 10% of rams (males) refuse to mate with ewes (females) but do readily mate with other rams."[9]
Mallards form male-female pairs only until the female lays eggs, at which time the male leaves the female. Mallards have rates of male-male sexual activity that are unusually high for birds, in some cases, as high as 19% of all pairs in a population.[41]
Aha, I thought someone would mention something like this, and so I was very careful in my original post to add a qualifier: Now, I don't know much at all about this protein discovery of which you talk, but I can tell you that differences in fingerprints at least (and, I thought, most of the other subtle differences between identical twins) are due to environmental issues. The fingerprints of twins are actually much more similar than those of other pairs of people, and the differences that do exist are down to the environment of the womb. Anyway, my point when referring to twins was not that people cannot be BORN homosexual explicity, but that they cannot be homosexual due to GENES alone.
Oh, I agree that there's also an environmental influence. I was just pointing out some evidence on the genetic side for the same reason you did so for the environmental.
To be frank, though, it matters little. The fact that something is caused by environment rather than genes does NOT mean that that something is a choice. I usually only correct people that claim homosexuality is genetic out of principle; the moral and social consequences of such a distinction are essentially zero.
I think you are definitely born that way because i just think it's so gross to be with another chick, that if you like the same sex, then there must be some type of chemical or something that makes you that way. i mean, how do we know that we were born straight? it's just the way you think. it's pretty simple, you are either turned on or you're not.
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Re: Are people born Gay,bi,etc ?
The bomb diggity
