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Old 08-10-15, 06:04 AM   #1
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Default Should our internet be tracked?

Personally, I believe our home internet is already tracked anyway!

But do you think it should be? Why not? or why should it be?

I personally believe it's such an invasion of privacy! We currently live in a world that seems like the people above us, just want to control us like puppets! We don't live freely.

I believe in policing and understand that we need some kind of Government, but we live in mad times, where everything we do is monitored, tracked and so on!!

What do you think?









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Old 08-10-15, 07:34 AM   #2
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Default Re: Should our internet be tracked?

I think it's a good thing. There's so much dodgy stuff on the internet and in many cases the fact that it's being tracked allows us to track down individuals who are posing a threat to others.

I think if it wasn't tracked we'd see more elements of the 'deep web' on the internet. And for anyone who knows anything about the deep web that would be a very disturbing thing indeed.









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Old 08-10-15, 08:41 AM   #3
 
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Default Re: Should our internet be tracked?

I really don't see why not.
It's not like they're doing anything with the information, as long as you're not communicating with fellow terrorists...








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Old 08-10-15, 03:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: Should our internet be tracked?

The internet is made to be free... that means no tracking.
I don't mind advert tracking, as that means you get ads that are more relevant to you (I don't want adverts for childcare).
As for seeing my search history, what I send via IM's, what sites I visit, etc. THAT is waaaaaaaaaaay too far. You wouldn't want a policeman following you around all the time, so why would you want the same online?

@Tom yes, the internet has potential for crime... but guess what, so does the rest of the real world. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The majority of internet users don't know how to get to illicit websites (ones that sell illegal drugs, host child porn, etc.), and sites like Google and Bing will not show sites like that; meaning if you are a dumb peadophile (for example) and search any popular search engine for "child porn" or anything related to that "naked children, kid porn, underage porn, etc." all it will show is news articles, and other websites which are known to have 0 relationship with porn. Same with most other things you would want to prevent by tracking people.

Which brings me on to tracking itself. By the very nature of tracking people straight from the get-go, you are assuming EVERYONE is a criminal. If you have suspect to believe someone is a criminal, then ok, you can track them. But tracking to find the criminal is the wrong way to track what is happening. Criminals are a very small proportion of internet users, especially ones who use the internet to break the law. So you're finding a needle in a haystack, when you track everyone. So not only will you be having MILLIONS of people every week being attacked because they are breaking some law, e.g. copyright law, EU cookie law, etc., but also you are looking in the wrong place.
People who are using the internet to do criminal activities do it in the "deep web".
The deep web, in it's simplest form, is everything that you can access if you know the URL/IP address/etc., but hasn't been indexed by a search engine.
So, if I upload an image to my website, but don't display it, that means when a search engine crawls my site, it isn't seen, therefore it is in the deep web, as I can access it, and if I give people the URL to the image, they can access it, but all the search engines that crawled the site don't know that image exists.
The same can happen for websites. And this is where illegal websites come in. If you access what most people mean when they say "deep web", you use the Tor browser, which encrypts and anonymizes all data sent/received through the browser. Then there are a myriad of ways to visit the illegal website of your choosing, which there's hundreds of tutorials out there on how to do it, so I will ignore it. After finding the website you want you will go to a domain that looks like udhb72r32dg2yi.onion and it is like this for all sites. No memorable domain name, as that is encrypted, and a .onion extension, as that is encrypted and anonymized.
So, if you are a criminal, being tracked like this is impossible, as there is A no way to know where they went, unless the tracker is installed on their PC, and is being watched (via a screen sharing type of software), but you still wouldn't be able to prove it happened, even if you had this evidence. As there would be no server requests from that PC, and no data centre (that you know the location of) you could raid to prove they visited these illegal sites.
And then we come on to the cash of the internet. As you probably know, criminals use cash in the real world because it's damn near impossible to track, compared to a credit/debit card. And the same is done on the internet, but using bitcoins. Bitcoins can't be tracked easily and on the "deep web" this is the ONLY way you can buy anything.

So to summarize:
Tracking is bad because it criminalizes people before they do anything wrong (not to mention millions of people break little laws online daily*). And even if it didn't track people unless a certain keyword was searched for, it wouldn't be traceable... not to mention someone planning a terrorist attack is unlikely to search "how to make a bomb"



*Breaking laws:
I agree that I am over <age> - Yes, this is a law. And if you are under 18, and are watching porn. Under 13 and using social media/most forums, you are breaking the law.
I have read the terms and conditions - This isn't a law, but there may be things in the T&C's that mean what you are doing is illegal. For example, Facebook's T&C's (last I checked) stated all profile images must be of images that you own full copyright to (which gets them into court, which they can say "we told them, they didn't listen" and you get taken to court for).
Speaking of copyright... - Do you own full copyright to your forum avatar? Did you purchase EVERY song you have downloaded?
The list goes on... All these little things that people think don't matter online, really can land you in court. And if governments had access to all this information, without having to go to the expense of searching for it, then they would happily get everyone to cough up, as they would make a LOT of money off of it.
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Old 08-10-15, 11:54 PM   #5
 
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Default Re: Should our internet be tracked?

That is a fuckton of text.








Why so serious?
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Old 09-10-15, 05:49 AM   #6
 
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Default Re: Should our internet be tracked?

A huge amount of monitoring and tracking of all traces through the Internet results only immensely higher administrative manpower und costs ... unnecessary costs, of course. This approximately will correspond in proportion to the expenditure of the Stasi in former East Germany to monitor all citizens.

Applying this to the Internet this means that one half of humanity will be monitored from the other half.

And then a productive life, wether it is real or virtual, is no longer possible because the one part of mankind must constantly improve their monitoring, cause the other part will be busy to find ways to negate the monitoring as far as possible.

Oh yes, I think that is the real status quo already, if I've a look whats going on in this world.
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Old 09-10-15, 06:54 AM   #7
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Default Re: Should our internet be tracked?

Bottom line is that using the internet you accept that this is happening. If anyone is really that opposed to it they can simply stop using it if they're really that opposed.

It's like CCTV in the real world. It's there to protect the innocent and catch criminals. So unless you're doing something illegal then you've nothing to worry about.

Like do I really care that some system somewhere is monitoring the fact I'm on Teenforumz? Or when I'm on Twitter/ Facebook? Not really. As I say if people are really that outraged and opposed to it there are ways to stop this tracking or they can simply just not use the internet.

It's not like it's monitoring that you're not signing up to things underage or downloading illegal music because let's face it most people get their music illegally and most people watch something e.g. porn under-age. These people aren't being punished. But when you find out about all these for example online paedophile rings that get tracked you're thankful that this kind of software is out there.

Most people aren't able to use the deep web or know how to use it successfully. Of the internet the 'deep web' accounts for 96% of online webpages. The 'surface' internet if you will so your facebook, youtube etc. accounts for 4% but these pages have a larger user base than the only 96%.









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Old 09-10-15, 08:31 AM   #8
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Default Re: Should our internet be tracked?

If you say the 4% should be tracked, so if someone goes on to PornHub and searches "Child porn" for example. Then fine, I can accept that.
But the internet is not made to basically have a policeman following you everywhere.

Not to mention the fact that a website can violate a law based on its domain. For example, if you have a website that ends in .sa (example.sa) then you are now governed by Saudi Arabian laws, which are VASTLY different from international (.com, .net) laws.

As for your comment about CCTV. They don't ALWAYS work. And they aren't there as a capture method, they are there as an identification method. A CCTV camera doesn't tell you WHILE a crime is happening, who did it, it gives you an image of the people AFTER it's happened. And your ISPs already do that.
All ISPs (Internet Service Providers) have to, by law, keep everything you search for online for x amount of time (depending on the country, depends on the length of x) and the ISP's datacentres are the CCTV recordings of the internet. If the police find an illegal site, that wasn't on the deep web (see above comment on why this wouldn't work), they go to every ISP and say "Here's a URL, find all your customers who visited it, and send their info to us" and then the police can get the people that way.
And on the deep web your tracking wouldn't work, in case you were going to say "this is why trackers are good". To access the "deep web" means you are untrackable, encryption out the wazooh. The way the police catch people on the deep web is have policemen working on the deep web, posing as drug dealers, human traffikers, etc.
That's the only way to catch people there.

But again. Innocent people shouldn't be tracked. "If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't be worried" is a bullshit argument. Maybe I don't want companies to have access to this data (as a simple breach in security could mean that people access data about everyone who watches perfume videos on google, and then sell their email addresses to Channel, or something). Not to mention that I shouldn't have to fear that if my friend goes on my computer, while I go to the toilet, and searches "kiddie porn" for a laugh (this happens with a lot of people, not just myself and my friends), that I will have people delving through everything I have ever done to prove I am a peadophile.

There are SO MANY reasons to not track everyone's internet, but very few for it.
If someone search "child porn" on Google, and spends an hour looking through every site, then fine, drop that tracking tech on them. But not your average Joe.



And as @lliam said, it's a massive cost to administrate all of this. Imagine that 30% of the UK are online at any one time, that requires another 30%, or maybe 15% (1 person tracks 2 people), to watch over. It would be impossible to fund, while still having every other business functioning fully. And then paying these people. As you would require to hire 45-90% of the population (1 person working 8 hours) just to watch over people doing their work, checking Facebook and Twitter, watching porn, watching YouTube videos, talking to friends, playing games, and MAYBE 1% of people working there find something fishy every day... But how will you enforce it? Even if you ignore all the "minor" crimes, some of which cost people millions; copyright, then there's still a lot more crimes people make which people break, and aren't aware of and upload images to social media.








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Old 10-10-15, 02:17 AM   #9
 
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Default Re: Should our internet be tracked?

That is another fuckton of text.








Why so serious?
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Old 10-10-15, 02:36 AM   #10
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Default Re: Should our internet be tracked?

You keep saying that it's fair enough to track if someone keeps searching for child pornography or something along these lines but without tracking you'd never find these people. Otherwise you'd literally start tracking people on the ground of 'Oh, he/ she looks like they're into little kids'.

Like if some system somewhere knows that I say viewed a music video by Jamie T the other day I don't really care. If that system knows I'm on here at this very second it doesn't really bother me and just because say a friend has jokingly typed something inappropriate into your search engine it doesn't mean that you're going to have police and a SWAT team sent to your house within minutes, it just doesn't work like that.

The 'deep web', despite it being larger isn't used anywhere near enough as much as the surface internet purely as people either aren't aware of it or aren't smart enough to navigate and use it safely.

The simply matter is that this doesn't actually affect people in any way. Like no sites have been selling my email address or details because if they had by now I'd be receiving tonnes of spam emails and texts which I don't.









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